Ethics in Emergencies (or any time at all)

OK, "talk" to you again soon!

Yes, the places that our minds go are very treacherous right now. As you say, we're all making calls that are on the right side of the line. Stay well, friends. I'm going to sign off for now, but will be in touch soon about the radio play. I'm so glad you're both in!

We need someone in this group who actually HAS done something unethical, so we can debate the whys! We're all obeying the new rules, from the sounds of it, and splitting hairs over shopping trips and comfort food and watch batteries!

Also, it's hard to figure out where to place that line between "want" and "need" when it comes to safeguarding both physical and mental well-being.

My husband is an active cyclist, and is under immense work pressure right now. To have the outlet of hopping on his bike taken away really does feel to him like a huge risk to his mental health. So, he doesn't go far, and takes only safe routes, but he is still going out on his bike. Again, is that selfish, or is that a necessary coping mechanism? Suzette, as for your case, I think if Evan were asking you not to expose yourself, and you still were, then that would be the only reason to feel any worry about deciding to go out and shop for yourself.

I'm not sure the wanting to goto Sobeys is a bad thing. It's a way of getting some exercise that you won't getting by letting someone go for you.

I don't need batteries,, but I do have a "need". I went looking for a baking tin to make oaf cake and it appears that when I moved here three years ago this month, I got rid of all our baking pans and two wire racks for cooling the cakes I can't make. I still have two sheet pans, but no cake pan, no loaf pan.

One off the women on my floor has made face masks for all the resident who want one. I forgot to putt it on when I went to Food Basics the other day. I also did dress warmly enough for the loooooogg linee

I'm feeling conflicted about my once-a-week grocrey shopping trips, too. A couple friends and a neighbour have each offered to do our grocery shopping for me, but I haven't taken any of them up on it. I've started going on Fridays at 7:00 a.m. to Sobey's to shop during their senior's hour (funny thing is, when it was announced, it didn't even register at first that it was for me, too!) The last visit, I finally put on one of my facemasks. Am I being unethical or just horribly foolish if I continue to do my own shopping because I don't want to put anyone out, and inadvertently bring COVID-19 home to my husband?

As for the shopping for the van - is it possible that "right" and "wrong" must be decided on a case by case basis? And what about the difference between someone who is vulnerable, like Evan, making the decision to step out, when it is himself being put at risk, as opposed to someone like me, a healthy, young(fish) individual, who takes no great risk for myself, but may cause risk for someone like Evan?

Hi Suzette! Your mask-making efforts are wonderful. I've been wearing a bandana over my face when I'm in the grocery store, but it's a very makeshift affair. More for my own sense that I'm doing my part to take necessary precautions for others.

Actually, CK, we've ha a pretty good exchange of ideas, but I think I will pull a Scamper as she has left my bedroom to explore other places in my vast apartment...I just went searching for her without success. Of course I could get her if I shake the temptations container.

Hi, sorry I'm so late, but I said I'd check in, and here I am. I haven't read all the comments, but I guess it's just 3 of us here and the topic is ethics in a pandemic. Funny I should notice Lloyd's comment about "sense of what is ethical when extenuating circumstances are taken into account". Part of the reason I'm late is that I took some facemasks I made to a nurse I know this afternoon, and Evan came along for the ride. On the way home he wanted to stop at a couple used car lots to look at vans because ours is old and deteriorating rapidly. I wasn't even sure the places would be open, but someone came out at one place and seemed pretty keen to sell us something. How does that work when we all are supposed to stand so far from each other? Is having to buy a new or used vehicle an extenuating circumstance? "Wants" may have to stop during a pandemic, but needs don't. Both our watches stopped working, too - is it ethical right now to go to Walmart for a new battery or cheapo watch? Do I really need a watch when I could just carry my cellphone around with me? How much am I willing to do without?

I've bought quite a few frozen pizza's from the grocery shelves, but the one I ate last night was really (it tasted fine) but the topping had slid off to one side so that the other side was just bare crust. But it is not visible until the package is opened that that is the case.

Thanks for the book suggestion. Currently I just started o "Obasan" written about the experiences of a young Japanese girl whose family was "quarantined" by the Canadian government back during WW2. Although the author, a third generation Japanese girl was put into a concentration camp which was the result of more of the bad things done by the government to "protect" Canadians from the presumed inherited feelings against the Japanese "foreigner" who maybe was born in Canada, but because they looked different, they were suspect. Great damage was done to them by "us" just as residential schools had lasting damage occurring from our misguided efforts to force a people to become Canadianized. In other words, we want to welcome the stranger as long as it doesn't cost us anything, It is very hard for me to justify what was done to either group. And so I sit here in judgement.

It's interesting to think what we'll do with all of the money we're saving right now while we're not going out to do anything.

I have been trying to weigh all of the needs to figure out where to make donations. It's not easy to say that one cause is worthier than another.

Wel I saved quite bit of money! The registration fee which was payable in US$ was repaid into my US credit card. I did not have to travel to Ottawa; I was going to by train, and I was going to share my room with its cost of $164CDN per night, with a chaplain coming from Burns Harbor, Indiana. So money not spent is money which stays here and is not being spent. But I miss not being there because the meetings move from place to place and while I am not in active ministry I did work with them for a total of about 12 years.

We may be able to see the needs better because we can focus on them and on meeting them, if that is possible. For example, I made an on line purchase today using my accumulated Dream Miles from my Airmiles card. I need a newer toaster; the slots in my old 4-slice toaster are too narrow for bread slices, so I have to force te slices down. So in 4 weeks or thereabout I will have New 2 slice toaster. The 4 slice one has existed for probably 30 or more years so it's well beyond its presumed useful life. But I had enough extra mile that I could use a a donation to contribute to Food Banks. That way I've done something for both myslef and for other who need food. The ends seem to justify the means.

It must be sort of hard to feel properly "occupied" today, when you know that you would otherwise be at the convention.

I was thinking that you are the philosopher today, but given Tim's occupation, I guess that is an occupational hazard. I suspect, what we count as ethical has a lot to do with our personal reasons for doing whatever it is we want to do, and that it is done with little thought of consequences. I want to go out, so I do, and I can come u with a "good" sounding reason for doing it.

But here's an example. There's always so much need in the world, and yet (I speak for myself here) so much money spent frivolously. If something is wrong to spend money on in the midst of this pandemic, is it not always wrong to spend money on it? I mean, just because we're now seeing more needs in our own immediate communities does not mean that those needs are any more urgent, does it?

I do have a work of necessity coming on Thursday afternoon; I have an appointment to get my snow tires removed, and my car examined for anything needed since my extended warranty expires on June 15th. I hope they can't find anything wrong with the beast, but I'm not driving much at all. Today would have been the beginning day of my now-cancelled maritime convention which was to have been held in Ottawa. Maritime missions are having difficulties as ships are still coming into ports, but chaplains can't board the ships. The extent of their work seems to be what I would describe as gangway ministry. Conversations and deliveries of whatever on the gangway with neither the chaplain nor the seafarer coming in contact with each other. Of course, ships may need provisions put on board, bu that's not the chaplain's role.

Anyways, back to the ethics question. I'm wondering how much wiggle room there is in our sense of what is ethical when extenuating circumstances are taken into account. And "ethical" seems like too heavy a word here.

Have you ever read the Jeffrey Archer story "Just Good Friends"? I think you'd really enjoy it!

Scamper is here, right where I put her when I moved her. She is facing away from me, but clearly is content with being right where I put her, paying no attention to me whatsoever. Oops I spoke to o soon. She has lifted her head and is saying something with her tail swishing once. .

No judgement on typing errors here!

And "expaine" is missing an "x" following the first "e" and the second "e" should not be there at all.

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I was very entertained earlier, Lloyd by your email comments about your cat. I share them here in case anyone else shows up to enjoy them:

"Scamper is a delightful friend... She is adept at saying feed me, pet me, clean my box, I wanna be in the same room with you.  I don't want to be in your space.  give me temptations.  I want to go out on the balcony.

While interesting they are limited in scope."

It's possible interpret my poor typing to explain "ibn"; I meant to say "be in" but the to epaine, the "b" is actually in the "in". That's clearly a rationalization for poor typing with little or no proofreading.

I asked that because last night I was talking about whether there could be any justification for a trip to the LCBO, unless a person is addicted and will suffer withdrawal. This led us to the idea that you could rationalize going, but probably couldn't justify it. So, basically, what you said. Any old reasons vs. good reasons.

Since I have no dog to walk, the extent of cat activities seems to be ibn moving her from the chair in front of my computer to my bed. Not much exercise, but she is getting heavier.

The difference between rationalizations and justifications according to my Oxford dictionary is very little other than justification seems to have the idea of a reason being somehow "good". But both ideas deal with a set of reasons for doing something.

It seems to me that going for groceries more than once a week might be rightly deemed "essential" in a case like yours, Lloyd.

This question actually came to my mind yesterday when I was thinking about how we weigh where to make exceptions to the directives. For example, is going for walks okay? Only in the evening? Only if you need to walk a dog? On the streets, but not on sidewalks or trails where you need to pass too close to others?

I'm here briefly, and you? What Have I done to violate the COVID-19 restrictions? I go to the grocery store more than once a week. Why? I buy as I need, and don't have space in my frig for too much extra.

Okay, I'm here now. Anyone else around?